Well done, Moondude for not asking for the Nicaraguan’s message to be deleted. That is very liberal of you. In fact, looking at the dates, it would have been what in the UK is called “retrospective legislation” if your ruling applied to actions made by a citizen before the new legislation, and that is universally considered as bad law.

To use Moondude’s approach,
if he had read my message concerning the question from the Nicaraguan, he would have understood that
1) It was she, not he.
2) She did ask the question in a language she understood, Spanish.
3) It was she, not me, that did not understand the significance of the Italian flag, which she may well not have recognised. Does Moondude know the flags of Nicaragua and Costa Rica, without looking them up ?

Altogether, it looks as though Moondude has not grasped this case.

I must admit I have not grasped what he means in his final paragraph. Originally it was more “a forum in a whole” which I did not understand. Now I don’t really understand it at all. It is not impossible that what Moondude is proposing is really quite similar to what Cajun is proposing, but with more rigid rules (which I don’t think are helpful, because beginners from other countries ARE going to make mistakes in the procedure --- so what ?).

“As to your statement on me not seeing a NEED for a separate international forum for asking questions on the identification of stamps”
Where exactly did I state this ? I don’t remember even mentioning stamps.

“deliberately breaking the rules in a continuing pattern has nothing to do with mistakes, but with bad will to follow the rules... And that is what bothered many people on the French forum”

Who does this refer to? Can it be proved ? It seems irrelevant here.

The only people who used languages other that French on the French forum to any great extent were Cajun and Moondude, and the person who most complained about it was Moondude. But it is not relevant here. We are trying to set up an international forum where this would not be called “deliberately breaking the rules ……with bad will to follow the rules”. Anyway, it wasn’t a codified rule at the time. Moondude is the one who has taken us backwards. I trust Cajun much more to have the right international spirit here. This is supposed to be Delcampe International. But even paying for things from other countries is often very difficult, and that is a most essential part of commerce, as also is communication.

I’m sure he has quite a useful proposal, but he must accept that some of his recent statements about it are unintelligible. I have tried to sort out what he means. I, for one, would have no objection to him explaining himself here in French. This might save a lot of future argument.

The hammers smashing the Nicaraguan for allegedly being so stupid as to ask the question in a language he doesn't understand, particularly as he asked the question in Spanish, I find very offensive !

Frank Apied

Frank,

I don't discuss to discuss. If messages are read without a broad view on the point of discussion there is no point in talking. There is a lot of blabla, without any content, only remarks about things easy to understand... The point made is very clear, but when not willing to see the point there can not be any discussion.


If the point is that the Nicaraguan could have asked the question in the language best understood by him/her that is the point, nothing else.

If he/she is used that is to keep the subject of discussion neutral.

If I talk about stamps, I use this field of collecting because it is mine. Intelligent people just take the example and extract it to other fields of collecting.

If refering to the history of the forum, you know very well what it means... You can give many examples of this, but when being confronted with facts concerning your friend Roger, you seem to have forgotten that history completely...

Your first paragraph also shows a lot ;-)

hi frank and moon,
well so far, the right to free speech seems to be holding on with no censorship. be grateful for that. i ain't gonna enter the gator fight, already had one gettin' a girlfriend for smiley doo. but just want to let that person from nicaragua know we are a friendly bunch here and if she wants to come back, i will talk to her in spanish. got pretty good with it on the translator and some of my customers. also have a lot of cubans, puerto ricans, dominicans, mexicans, and others in our city of tampa. and the fact my great uncle was a mexican. and my nieces are part cuban. moon, learned a long time ago rules get broken everyday. you have brokien them on delcampe and so have i. we are human, not machines or computers. we are here to help, not hinder; and to compromise, not argue frank. now y'all kiss and make up. and be friends again. . we got enough problems with them terrorists killing people than to be at war here. take care my friends. we ain't had this much fun in a long time. .
a bientot,
cajunsr.

Frank,

I don't discuss to discuss. If messages are read without a broad view on the point of discussion there is no point in talking. There is a lot of blabla, without any content, only remarks about things easy to understand... The point made is very clear, but when not willing to see the point there can not be any discussion.


If the point is that the Nicaraguan could have asked the question in the language best understood by him/her that is the point, nothing else.

If he/she is used that is to keep the subject of discussion neutral.

If I talk about stamps, I use this field of collecting because it is mine. Intelligent people just take the example and extract it to other fields of collecting.

If refering to the history of the forum, you know very well what it means... You can give many examples of this, but when being confronted with facts concerning your friend Roger, you seem to have forgotten that history completely...

Your first paragraph also shows a lot ;-)

“The point made is very clear, but when not willing to see the point there can not be any discussion.”
Believe me, some of what you write is unfortunately NOT clear. I have already said that I would be happy for you to give a French version.

“If the point is that the Nicaraguan could have asked the question in the language best understood by him/her that is the point, nothing else.”
But as I’ve tried to explain to you, that is NOT the point !!!
Nicaraguans speak Spanish. The question was in Spanish !
I really don’t think Moondude does understand what this is all about.

“If he/she is used that is to keep the subject of discussion neutral”.
Possibly, but Moondude used “he” and I had been using “she” , because it was she. I don't think most shes would thank him for being transformed into hes. It is a very old-fashioned thing to do.

“If I talk about stamps, I use this field of collecting because it is mine. Intelligent people just take the example and extract it to other fields of collecting.”
But Moondude wrote:
“As to your statement on me not seeing a NEED for a separate international forum for asking questions on the identification of stamps”
I never made this statement ! I have challenged Moondude to tell us where it is, and he has not been able to, because I never wrote it. This is really not the way to conduct a discussion.

“If refering to the history of the forum, you know very well what it means...”
Repeat: Who does this refer to? Can it be proved ? It seems irrelevant here. We are discussing here a proposed new international forum.

“Your first paragraph also shows a lot”
It shows that I am not in favour of retrospective legislation.
If Moondude has something else in mind, he obviously needs to explain what, not just hint darkly.

My last paragraph was a strong criticism of Moonude’s
“ ..but he would have obtained more success asking the question in a language he understands... “
Again, he DID ASK THE LANGUAGE IN A LANGUAGE HE UNDERSTANDS, SPANISH.
NICARAGUANS UNDERSTAND SPANISH.
It’s quite bizarre that Moondude doesn’t understand this.

AGAIN (or could it be the first time for Moondude) SEE
Link (http)

It would be nice if Cajun could produce a reply in Spanish, if Moondude has no objection.

Frank Apied

“The point made is very clear, but when not willing to see the point there can not be any discussion.”
Believe me, some of what you write is unfortunately NOT clear. I have already said that I would be happy for you to give a French version.

“If the point is that the Nicaraguan could have asked the question in the language best understood by him/her that is the point, nothing else.”
But as I’ve tried to explain to you, that is NOT the point !!!
Nicaraguans speak Spanish. The question was in Spanish !
I really don’t think Moondude does understand what this is all about.

“If he/she is used that is to keep the subject of discussion neutral”.
Possibly, but Moondude used “he” and I had been using “she” , because it was she. I don't think most shes would thank him for being transformed into hes. It is a very old-fashioned thing to do.

“If I talk about stamps, I use this field of collecting because it is mine. Intelligent people just take the example and extract it to other fields of collecting.”
But Moondude wrote:
“As to your statement on me not seeing a NEED for a separate international forum for asking questions on the identification of stamps”
I never made this statement ! I have challenged Moondude to tell us where it is, and he has not been able to, because I never wrote it. This is really not the way to conduct a discussion.

“If refering to the history of the forum, you know very well what it means...”
Repeat: Who does this refer to? Can it be proved ? It seems irrelevant here. We are discussing here a proposed new international forum.

“Your first paragraph also shows a lot”
It shows that I am not in favour of retrospective legislation.
If Moondude has something else in mind, he obviously needs to explain what, not just hint darkly.

My last paragraph was a strong criticism of Moonude’s
“ ..but he would have obtained more success asking the question in a language he understands... “
Again, he DID ASK THE LANGUAGE IN A LANGUAGE HE UNDERSTANDS, SPANISH.
NICARAGUANS UNDERSTAND SPANISH.
It’s quite bizarre that Moondude doesn’t understand this.

AGAIN (or could it be the first time for Moondude) SEE
Link (http)

It would be nice if Cajun could produce a reply in Spanish, if Moondude has no objection.

Frank Apied

A lot of talk with no content.

A waste of valuable reading time.

If you are not open for discussion, but only for smalltalk, there is a separate section for that.

Actually, there is a lot of sensible content here, continually harrassed by Moondude. He doesn't really seem to understand what is going on, as I have pointed out, and we don't always undertand what he writes in English, but we have been patient.

We are trying to help the Nicaraguan and people like her in future. Moondude is continually trying to hinder this with a wild variery of accusations against her and us and a hypothetical them, and the wielding of restrictive and pointless regulations.

If he feels that all this is a waste of his valuable reading time, I suggest he goes and reads the Dutch forum or anything else he can find, and does his smalltalk in some other place. I would not be altogether sorry to see him go. Nor,I suspect would Cajun.

Frank Apied.

Actually, there is a lot of sensible content here, continually harrassed by Moondude. He doesn't really seem to understand what is going on, as I have pointed out, and we don't always undertand what he writes in English, but we have been patient.

We are trying to help the Nicaraguan and people like her in future. Moondude is continually trying to hinder this with a wild variery of accusations against her and us and a hypothetical them, and the wielding of restrictive and pointless regulations.

If he feels that all this is a waste of his valuable reading time, I suggest he goes and reads the Dutch forum or anything else he can find, and does his smalltalk in some other place. I would not be altogether sorry to see him go. Nor,I suspect would Cajun.

Frank Apied.

Yes Frank,
Yes Roger,

you are right.
sure you are.
always your are

you find your content sensible
yes it is, sure it is

I think he has done this before too !

Shown to be wrong, he pretends to belive that the opponent is right in a pretence of irony, as if he were just giving way to please him although really he has not a leg to stand on. Moondude still hasn't explained what he meant, or answered my other objections logically. That is not Moondude's way, especially not when he is losing.

Goodbye, Moondude. Remember, this is a waste of your time. You are moving on to better things now.

Frank Apied

“The point made is very clear, but when not willing to see the point there can not be any discussion.”
Believe me, some of what you write is unfortunately NOT clear. I have already said that I would be happy for you to give a French version.

“If the point is that the Nicaraguan could have asked the question in the language best understood by him/her that is the point, nothing else.”
But as I’ve tried to explain to you, that is NOT the point !!!
Nicaraguans speak Spanish. The question was in Spanish !
I really don’t think Moondude does understand what this is all about.

“If he/she is used that is to keep the subject of discussion neutral”.
Possibly, but Moondude used “he” and I had been using “she” , because it was she. I don't think most shes would thank him for being transformed into hes. It is a very old-fashioned thing to do.

“If I talk about stamps, I use this field of collecting because it is mine. Intelligent people just take the example and extract it to other fields of collecting.”
But Moondude wrote:
“As to your statement on me not seeing a NEED for a separate international forum for asking questions on the identification of stamps”
I never made this statement ! I have challenged Moondude to tell us where it is, and he has not been able to, because I never wrote it. This is really not the way to conduct a discussion.

“If refering to the history of the forum, you know very well what it means...”
Repeat: Who does this refer to? Can it be proved ? It seems irrelevant here. We are discussing here a proposed new international forum.

“Your first paragraph also shows a lot”
It shows that I am not in favour of retrospective legislation.
If Moondude has something else in mind, he obviously needs to explain what, not just hint darkly.

My last paragraph was a strong criticism of Moonude’s
“ ..but he would have obtained more success asking the question in a language he understands... “
Again, he DID ASK THE LANGUAGE IN A LANGUAGE HE UNDERSTANDS, SPANISH.
NICARAGUANS UNDERSTAND SPANISH.
It’s quite bizarre that Moondude doesn’t understand this.

AGAIN (or could it be the first time for Moondude) SEE
Link (http)

It would be nice if Cajun could produce a reply in Spanish, if Moondude has no objection.

Frank Apied

Meanwhile, Moondude, who is the one who voluntarily said goodbye to us twice, has NEVER ANSWERED THIS.

He just calls it "blablabal" (is that a Dutch word ?) and passes on to something else.

He never goes through something like this point by point as I do.

For example, he has never indicated where we can find the statement that he falsely attributed to me. It's as though he thinks he can make up things like this, and it doesn't matter.

Most objectionable of all, he wants to smash Nicaraguans and other newcomers, whereas Cajun and I want to help them. I think that is very very evident.

Frank Apied.

Moondude doesn't keep on giving the same answers to questions which are only asked differently...

Bla Bla Bla = bla bla bla = bla bla bla

You go point by point with a detour to the same conclusion, without answering other peoples comments :-) You only talk for yourself and your arguments. That is not a discussion that is a MONOLOGUE....

You really don't read posts very well, you read with a narrow vision, without a broader perspective, taking words as literal as possible, just to find something to whine on about... If that is the standard of UK elderly educated people, I am glad I don't run into those too often...

- Moondude, not aped -

hi frank,
just did it:

Link (http)

a bientot,
cajunsr.

This is quite crazy !

Moondude is applauding this , which would be fine, except that it breaks the very regulation he campaigned so hard to get !

It still appears in Spanish on an Italian page.
True, there is a translation and that should make it OK, but the translation is in English, not Italian !

So it would be OK, would it, to have French on the Dutch website, as long as there was a translation in English ? Moondude would applaud that?
It's crazy, crazy, crazy .

All these rules should be done away with , and the whole thing SIMPLIFIED. Members should not have to flit around from flag to flag like this, getting no help or even being penalised if they chance on the wrong one, perhaps not even recognising the flag, and how can they tell that the American flag represents the de facto English language forum, not the British flag (which is there for no known purpose) ?

Frank Apied.

As stated by Pascal already multiple times, but obviously not read by Frank, it is allowed to post a message in a foreign language as long as it is accompanied by a translation in the language of the forum, preferable with the version in the language of the forum on top.

So not like this, because it does not include a Dutch version: Link (http)

It would be simplified if people read the rules before posting and obey them instead of trying to break them deliberately to make their point.

I really am beginning to suspect that Moondude may be lacking in some common human quality, though I'm not quite certain what. He just refuses to understand the problems we are discussing !

LOOK !

Link (http)

Here the message is in Spanish on the Italian page, and it has a translation in English, but is it alright ?
Indeed NOT, because as Moondude might be first to insist, it does not include an Italian version.

That is the point (Moondude's point, the huge "improvement" to delcampe for which he fought so very hard).

Why then did Moondude applaud this same

Link (http)

It is crazy, crazy, crazy. That is the whole point.

There is exactly the same "problem" there as in the one he is now complaining about, where it is in French on the Dutch forum, with a perfect English translation, but it is not in Dutch (this complaint regardless of the fact that so many Dutch speakers, including Moondude, speak English and/or French perfectly well). Then he will tell you that this is in no way politices or dogma. But when it's about Spanish and Italian , he doesn't seem to care so much .....

I wonder if Moondude understands the Nicaraguan "problem" now ?
Can someone explain it to him in Dutch, perhaps ?

Frank Apied.

Maybe you lack common sense.

1) The discussion with the Nicaraguan woman is not in the right section, nor in the right language. I think that was stated many many many messages ago.

2) For some people it is obvious to post messages in the section of their "best" language. For others it seems to be a crazy idea.

3) If Delcampe had a moderator/administrator on these forums, like they have multiple on the Dutch and French, he/she could have pointed out to the woman where she could best ask her question to get a good answer so she would be helped with other questions in the language she understands...

4) I did not care about this, because you insisted that we should cut a new member some slack, and because I have no knowledge of Spanish to help this woman find the correct answer in the correct place...

5) Maybe instead of wanting to change Delcampe all the time, you could assist people in using Delcampe in the way that it is designed to be used... That way a lot of things you imagine to be problems, would not take place anymore... Begin with yourself when trying to change the world...

Maybe, just maybe Frank understands his problems now?

In the other case, don't bother to answer

This is really a typical Moondude reply, because it ignores his latest inconsistency, applauding and complaining about the same thing on different pages !

“For some people it is obvious to post messages in the section of their "best" language. For others it seems to be a crazy idea”.
And other people are just innocent newcomers who may not recognise the flag, or certainly not realise how important Moondude has made it.
Moondude is fanatical about keeping to rules. Although he may not indulge in local or national politics, his personality is certainly of a right-wing type.

”The discussion with the Nicaraguan woman is not in the right section, nor in the right language. I think that was stated many many many messages ago.”

NO. It is EITHER:
a) in the right language in the wrong section
OR
b) in the wrong language in the right section,

but not both at once !

In fact it is (a) --- Betty knows Spanish best, but got the wrong section when first she came to delcampe.

It was stated correctly many messages ago, but Moondude has often got it wrong and argued on his version of it.

He would call all this common sense ?
I thought Moondude had said good bye to us, anyway.

Frank Apied

This is really a typical Moondude reply, because it ignores his latest inconsistency, applauding and complaining about the same thing on different pages !

“For some people it is obvious to post messages in the section of their "best" language. For others it seems to be a crazy idea”.
And other people are just innocent newcomers who may not recognise the flag, or certainly not realise how important Moondude has made it.
Moondude is fanatical about keeping to rules. Although he may not indulge in local or national politics, his personality is certainly of a right-wing type.

”The discussion with the Nicaraguan woman is not in the right section, nor in the right language. I think that was stated many many many messages ago.”

NO. It is EITHER:
a) in the right language in the wrong section
OR
b) in the wrong language in the right section,

but not both at once !

In fact it is (a) --- Betty knows Spanish best, but got the wrong section when first she came to delcampe.

It was stated correctly many messages ago, but Moondude has often got it wrong and argued on his version of it.

He would call all this common sense ?
I thought Moondude had said good bye to us, anyway.

Frank Apied

hi frank and moon,
did it ever occur to either one of you that the delcampers might not ever read the forum rules and not knowing them, just try to get an answer at any of the forums? when you buy a new toy, do you always read the instructions or just play with it? how about a car? or a new girlfriend or do they come with instructions? here again, the international forum will solve all this if given its day in court. and all this arguing will become a moot point. by the by, i did break the rules on the italian site, twice, i used spanish and english. and i believe that violated the rules for that site by not using a mother tongue for the translation along with the spanish. now, will the delcampe police censor my helping this new person to our site or be gratious and leave our answers alone? although i am not religious, i do rembember that god only gave out 10 commandmants and most of the christians can't even follow them.
a bientot,
cajunsr.

Cajun is absolutely right.
Nobody reads the instructions, especially as they are often couched in a weird foreign kind of English. It can lead to problems if you do.

When I bought my first stereogram or music centre, as they were called then (a big thing which would play gramophone records or the radio in stereo, with two separate speakers), it was made in Russia and I read the instructions very carefully.

"In winter, leave in the house for 4 or 5 hours to allow to warm up gradually before unpacking. Then open the front door, and put the gramophone outside". This seemed very strange! So I just did what I thought.

In fact, this was not the front door of the house, but a flap on the stereogram, and what was slid outwards was the turntable, to allow access to put on records before sliding it back again! Exactly what anyone would have done anyway. The warning about low temperatures in winter did not apply to England, which is notably warm in winter compared to most similarly northern countries.

What worries me about some Christians is that they feel perfectly free to do things which God did not think to command against so long ago.

Frank Apied

P.S. Frank's picture seems to be an ostrich, for reasons best known to him. They can be farmed very well in England, and we eat their dried meat in pubs (as a snack, like crisps). Delicious ! But irrelevant.